As the fragile “multiculturalism” of the West begins to fall apart in the wake of Hamas’ murderous incursion into Israel (perpetrated with psychopathic glee), and Israel’s inevitable brutal response to it, we’ve seen a lot of talk about those nasty “Zionists”.
I don't have the answer. But I will remark on a couple of things; firstly, those pictures of the 'jews against zionism' are so ridiculous, I actually struggle to believe they are genuine jews at all; they appear to be comical caricatures of what someone thinks a 'religious jew' looks like. Second, in response to AML in respect of "if Palestinian youths regularly threw stones at your car", I only wish it were just stones. How would you feel if your friends' cousins' were shot in the head, whilst travelling in their car on their way for a weekend break? And that was before October 7th. And yes, Gaza may well be surrounded by a perimeter fence with guns pointing inwards, but that may be because of the hundreds of rockets fired every single day, from Gaza, and because of the terrorist tunnels enabling the killing of anyone and everyone they can find, and because of the ambulances used as terrorist decoys, and because of your daughter's friend being shot because she's a police border guard, and because hospitals do harbour terrorists and because the world's media get their information from a terrorist organisation and take it as the gospel truth, and because scout huts have rocket launchers next to play areas. God I'm too tired to go on. I don't think there is an answer.
These 'peaceful' pro-Palestinian protests in London (as the BBC are adamant in portraying them) were far from 'peaceful'- my son found himself in the middle of it and in his words, "it was pretty grim what they were screaming". His friend was beaten up because he 'looked' Jewish (he's not).
There is no answer when one side loves to hate us more than they want to live or more than they love their children. "I understand the Arabs wanting to wipe us out, but do they really expect us to cooperate"-Golda Meir. Well, we're not co-operating. Not this time.
Zionism is a belief that the most persecuted people in history should have a sanctuary, unfortunately very tiny, where they are free from the insane ravages of a conquest ideology posing as a religion. All good Christians support Zionism.
This is simply not true. What is true is that jews were in part persecuted simply for being jews. Bad enough, no?
Meanwhile, in the Middle Ages, gypsies were by royal decree to be killed on sight in Denmark and Sweden.
Guess what happened to groups such as the Cathars? Or people simply preaching the word of the Bible outside of the remit of the catholic church, or later the state churches? Or...
I can list groups having been persecuted based on group identity characteristics until the cows come home.
I think you should listen to Darryl Cooper’s 25 hour podcast “Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem”. His podcast is called Martyrmade and is on Spotify so no ads. I knew a lot of the history of Zionism but not everything, it was a rather scattered knowledge. It is a political ideology and there are various stripes from mild to extreme. Netanyahu is an extremist, his mob killed Yitzak Rabin, also a Zionist. There are no easy answers to this situation so I prefer to take a nuanced view and hope that one day a greater Israel can be realised where Jews, Christians and Muslims can live equally. Prior to 7 Oct, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip lived within a perimeter fence with guns pointed inwards, controlled by machines. If you were born there, how would you feel about that? Equally, if you were born in Israel, and Palestinian youths regularly threw stones at your car (this happened to my mother and her friend who made a hasty retreat), how would you feel? Israeli’s live under under a kind of permanent siege, it’s awful. So too is living in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
I'll ask this: then why do palestinians act like the vilest filth imaginable when accepted as refugees in nations that do nothing but give them everything for free?
We've never done anything to hurt them - and they repay our kindness with rape, murder, arson, robberies, frauds and assaults and harassment.
I would urge some caution with this podcast after having listened recently at the urging of colleagues. I think you should be certain to balance Cooper’s information with those who have not previously critiqued Israel without making an honest appraisal of the underlying ideologies that motivate those who want them (not just removed or relocated) gone. Cooper offers some light critiques of Palestine, their governing body, and the beliefs that inform them, but it was increasingly evident that was to appear far more balanced than he actually is despite his pathos fueled proclamations.
It’s primarily a history of early Zionism and throughout the podcast he has repeatedly said he’s trying to be balanced. It’s very interesting. We in the West are not informed about Zionism, only that it’s anti-Semitic to be anti-Zionist, which is just nonsense. There are plenty of Jewish people who are anti-Zionist. Fortunately, during my studies of the Russian empire, I knew about it - and the reasons for it, which are totally understandable. It was part of the Nationalist movement of the 19th C. Successive Israeli governments talk constantly about the Holocaust but they’d be better to discuss the pogroms in the Russian Empire (Pale of Settlement) - the main reason some Jews left Europe for Palestine in the 19th century. Many went to America instead or stayed in Western Europe as they didn’t believe in the political ideology of Zionism, they wanted to assimilate. There were Arabs (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) living in Palestine under successive empires for over a thousand years until WW1 and the subsequent breakup of European empires. They got along fine until the Zionists came along. It was only after WW2 that more Jewish people emigrated to Israel, understandably.
I appreciate your explanation. However, not everyone in the West has limited knowledge. That said, I do agree it is important to seek a balanced perspective. I’m just urging people to seek multiple sources and perspectives. I’ve listened to Cooper on a few topics, and while he seems well informed, I’ve been curious about some of his sources (and at times his lack of clarity as to which sources he is even referencing). On a personal note, I’m not fond of the emotional storytelling, which I’m sure he feels comes off as sincere, but considering the current media milieu, it feels manipulative. Thank you for replying. At this point, my hope is people consider sources beyond 3 minute clips on TikTok.
I agree, multiple sources are good, especially of radically differing POVs. I do listen to these. I just cannot agree that one people’s security depends on the annihilation of another people’s emotional well-being, ie them being turfed from their homes. I don’t think the majority of Jewish people ever wanted what happened to the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank. The extreme radical Zionists did, though. There has to be a better way. About the emotionality of the Martyrmade podcast: I thought it helped drive home the message of the situation. We’re all a bit numb, I think, after the horrible last 20 years of violence on our screens.
"I’m afraid I’m all out of easy answers today." A refreshing position if there ever was one. If more people were able to admit that they don't have certainty instead of chaining themselves to "the right answers" (a.k.a. opinions) even when they don't have enough information at hand, the world would be less shouty and screamy.
If the arabs get to demand Israel be destroyed and jews "handled", I get to demand all moslems to be deported from Europe no matter why they are here or how long the've been here.
"From ocean to ocean - no islam in Europe"
All mosques to be torn down or made into museums of islam's crimes against humanity. Islam to be banned as a faith. Moslems to be forbidden entry unless under North Kore-style supervision. All moslems forbidden from owning land or parts of any european company or any resource, real estate or anything at all.
I could go on, but the point is overwrought as it is:
The above is what the arabs and their western lickers claim is just and right re: Israel and jews. The above is also how most arab-moslem nations treat non-arabic non-moslems, especially the ones under Saudi sphere of influence.
Meaning: everyone supporting the arab claims vs Israel and jews must either support my points, or admit to being racists and racial-religous supremacists.
(Small wonder the pomo-pedo crowd, the feminists and the multikulti-crowd claim logic is "racist"...)
I don't have the answer. But I will remark on a couple of things; firstly, those pictures of the 'jews against zionism' are so ridiculous, I actually struggle to believe they are genuine jews at all; they appear to be comical caricatures of what someone thinks a 'religious jew' looks like. Second, in response to AML in respect of "if Palestinian youths regularly threw stones at your car", I only wish it were just stones. How would you feel if your friends' cousins' were shot in the head, whilst travelling in their car on their way for a weekend break? And that was before October 7th. And yes, Gaza may well be surrounded by a perimeter fence with guns pointing inwards, but that may be because of the hundreds of rockets fired every single day, from Gaza, and because of the terrorist tunnels enabling the killing of anyone and everyone they can find, and because of the ambulances used as terrorist decoys, and because of your daughter's friend being shot because she's a police border guard, and because hospitals do harbour terrorists and because the world's media get their information from a terrorist organisation and take it as the gospel truth, and because scout huts have rocket launchers next to play areas. God I'm too tired to go on. I don't think there is an answer.
These 'peaceful' pro-Palestinian protests in London (as the BBC are adamant in portraying them) were far from 'peaceful'- my son found himself in the middle of it and in his words, "it was pretty grim what they were screaming". His friend was beaten up because he 'looked' Jewish (he's not).
There is no answer when one side loves to hate us more than they want to live or more than they love their children. "I understand the Arabs wanting to wipe us out, but do they really expect us to cooperate"-Golda Meir. Well, we're not co-operating. Not this time.
Zionism is a belief that the most persecuted people in history should have a sanctuary, unfortunately very tiny, where they are free from the insane ravages of a conquest ideology posing as a religion. All good Christians support Zionism.
"...most persecuted people in history..."
This is simply not true. What is true is that jews were in part persecuted simply for being jews. Bad enough, no?
Meanwhile, in the Middle Ages, gypsies were by royal decree to be killed on sight in Denmark and Sweden.
Guess what happened to groups such as the Cathars? Or people simply preaching the word of the Bible outside of the remit of the catholic church, or later the state churches? Or...
I can list groups having been persecuted based on group identity characteristics until the cows come home.
Gypsies are not a people.
And how do you conclude that?
And what, for that matter, is Anti-Zionism? Whatever else defines it, I don't think love-of-one's-fellow-man features in it.
I think you should listen to Darryl Cooper’s 25 hour podcast “Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem”. His podcast is called Martyrmade and is on Spotify so no ads. I knew a lot of the history of Zionism but not everything, it was a rather scattered knowledge. It is a political ideology and there are various stripes from mild to extreme. Netanyahu is an extremist, his mob killed Yitzak Rabin, also a Zionist. There are no easy answers to this situation so I prefer to take a nuanced view and hope that one day a greater Israel can be realised where Jews, Christians and Muslims can live equally. Prior to 7 Oct, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip lived within a perimeter fence with guns pointed inwards, controlled by machines. If you were born there, how would you feel about that? Equally, if you were born in Israel, and Palestinian youths regularly threw stones at your car (this happened to my mother and her friend who made a hasty retreat), how would you feel? Israeli’s live under under a kind of permanent siege, it’s awful. So too is living in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
I'll ask this: then why do palestinians act like the vilest filth imaginable when accepted as refugees in nations that do nothing but give them everything for free?
We've never done anything to hurt them - and they repay our kindness with rape, murder, arson, robberies, frauds and assaults and harassment.
I would urge some caution with this podcast after having listened recently at the urging of colleagues. I think you should be certain to balance Cooper’s information with those who have not previously critiqued Israel without making an honest appraisal of the underlying ideologies that motivate those who want them (not just removed or relocated) gone. Cooper offers some light critiques of Palestine, their governing body, and the beliefs that inform them, but it was increasingly evident that was to appear far more balanced than he actually is despite his pathos fueled proclamations.
It’s primarily a history of early Zionism and throughout the podcast he has repeatedly said he’s trying to be balanced. It’s very interesting. We in the West are not informed about Zionism, only that it’s anti-Semitic to be anti-Zionist, which is just nonsense. There are plenty of Jewish people who are anti-Zionist. Fortunately, during my studies of the Russian empire, I knew about it - and the reasons for it, which are totally understandable. It was part of the Nationalist movement of the 19th C. Successive Israeli governments talk constantly about the Holocaust but they’d be better to discuss the pogroms in the Russian Empire (Pale of Settlement) - the main reason some Jews left Europe for Palestine in the 19th century. Many went to America instead or stayed in Western Europe as they didn’t believe in the political ideology of Zionism, they wanted to assimilate. There were Arabs (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) living in Palestine under successive empires for over a thousand years until WW1 and the subsequent breakup of European empires. They got along fine until the Zionists came along. It was only after WW2 that more Jewish people emigrated to Israel, understandably.
I appreciate your explanation. However, not everyone in the West has limited knowledge. That said, I do agree it is important to seek a balanced perspective. I’m just urging people to seek multiple sources and perspectives. I’ve listened to Cooper on a few topics, and while he seems well informed, I’ve been curious about some of his sources (and at times his lack of clarity as to which sources he is even referencing). On a personal note, I’m not fond of the emotional storytelling, which I’m sure he feels comes off as sincere, but considering the current media milieu, it feels manipulative. Thank you for replying. At this point, my hope is people consider sources beyond 3 minute clips on TikTok.
I agree, multiple sources are good, especially of radically differing POVs. I do listen to these. I just cannot agree that one people’s security depends on the annihilation of another people’s emotional well-being, ie them being turfed from their homes. I don’t think the majority of Jewish people ever wanted what happened to the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank. The extreme radical Zionists did, though. There has to be a better way. About the emotionality of the Martyrmade podcast: I thought it helped drive home the message of the situation. We’re all a bit numb, I think, after the horrible last 20 years of violence on our screens.
Yes, you Muslims should move away from the Gaza Strip and leave the Jews alone.
Maybe back into the houses that Israel forcibly and violently evicted them from?
"I’m afraid I’m all out of easy answers today." A refreshing position if there ever was one. If more people were able to admit that they don't have certainty instead of chaining themselves to "the right answers" (a.k.a. opinions) even when they don't have enough information at hand, the world would be less shouty and screamy.
What we did to the native Americans is similar. At the time 'we' didn't even need to hide it in any way.
If the arabs get to demand Israel be destroyed and jews "handled", I get to demand all moslems to be deported from Europe no matter why they are here or how long the've been here.
"From ocean to ocean - no islam in Europe"
All mosques to be torn down or made into museums of islam's crimes against humanity. Islam to be banned as a faith. Moslems to be forbidden entry unless under North Kore-style supervision. All moslems forbidden from owning land or parts of any european company or any resource, real estate or anything at all.
I could go on, but the point is overwrought as it is:
The above is what the arabs and their western lickers claim is just and right re: Israel and jews. The above is also how most arab-moslem nations treat non-arabic non-moslems, especially the ones under Saudi sphere of influence.
Meaning: everyone supporting the arab claims vs Israel and jews must either support my points, or admit to being racists and racial-religous supremacists.
(Small wonder the pomo-pedo crowd, the feminists and the multikulti-crowd claim logic is "racist"...)
You can’t fix the problem of Islam by imitating them.
I'm not.
I'm arguing moslems shouldn't be allowed to set foot north of the Med or west of Turkey.