I was musing on something I wrote recently to the effect that expecting one’s neighbours not to paraglide across your border and indulge in an orgy of raping and butchery that would put your average (apocryphal) Viking to shame was a bit of a low bar, really, when it came to expectations of civilisation.
You should be asking yourself how they got past the "Iron Dome," why the Israeli soldiers were told to stand down and, especially, why the "rave" was moved from its original venue to the one so close to the border. All is not what it seems.
Maybe there are questions to be asked about how and why there was such a failure of border security on the day.
But the thing is, it changes nothing.
If some guy went out to work the night shift and forgot to lock his front door only to come back in the morning to find his whole family had been slaughtered, this wouldn't remove the smallest iota of culpability from those who carried out the deed.
True. Those are rookie numbers 20,000 Palestinian civilians. 50-70% of all buildings destroyed inc hospitals and schools. You're right! They really ought pick up the pace. 100% of buildings at least. We gotta kill more goat fuckers than that.
It's interesting how you can't fathom the idea that it had been quite some time since the Palestinians came over en masse to slaughter Jews that they had become less vigilant.
It takes a bizarre level of cognitive dissonance to look at a Christian country (or the one Jewish one) and a Muslim country and tell yourself that they are equally civilised. So children......do you want to keep your country Christian (or Jewish) or do you want to allow it to become Muslim?
Yup - it's really, really concerning what's happening here in the UK. We definitely have 'freedom' of speech only within certain quite narrow boundaries now, the exact definitions of which are left deliberately vague - which, of course, isn't really free speech at all.
"How are we to live alongside those with vastly different ‘fundamental’ values to our own?"
We aren't, it's that simple.
The main reason we live apart is because we cannot live together, because we are too different. The people who can use force to get rtid of the other people and take their lands, will. Circumstances may halt or slow this, but as a principle it doesn't go away, because it is part of what we are:
Territorial-nomadic apes.
And while "ape shall never kill ape" is fine in theory, it only takes one to prove the theory bogus.
Since you mention my ancestors (and for the sake of formality let me say that "Viking" wasn't an ethnicity or a social class, but an activity: you "went a'viking" which meant you went trading in for'n lands and maybe getting some mercenary work or some piracy and looting in too if opportunity knocked) ask yourself this:
How did the Danelaw come about and how was it dissolved? How is it that the Norse left Ireland? Why didn't either of the two scenarios happen "Oop Nort'" and what happened there instead?
Aristotle spent a lot of time and energy trying to boil down ethics to basic first principles and he arrived at this:
"Do not cause suffering"
"Increase the good"
The translation from Ancient Greek is a bit halting since it was supposed to be understood in the relevant cultural context, but it has stood the test of time as a very solid foundation for Western ethics (emphasis on Western). Christianity incorporated it wholesale in degrees somewhen between 450AD and the Black Plague, to great success - the legacy of Aritotle is a creation-level foundation in the mythos of the Christos (which is much different from the Babylonian-originated Storm God the Jews made their over time).
I tend to bring up my chickens in debates on culture and multi-racialism and such. I could let gulls and ravens and crows and magpies and some raptor or other live in the coop and chicken run too. They're all birds, and all birds are created equal in dignity and worth, right?
But which ones are the best for eggs and meat?
And so, a wire-net fence inc. a roof, tight enough to not let anything larger than a Great Tit through. Said wire-net extending at a 45 angle outwards and down into the ground too (to ward off foxes, badgers, et c).
Should I encounter a magpie inside the run, that magpie is brown bread courtesy of either my rifle or one of the dogs, and is hung from a nearby tree in which the magies nest to ward off others. So far, I have only had cause to do that once in five years.
Magpies are in many ways smarter than humans of certain varieties: it took one, plus that they have access to the midden, to get them to stop trying to nick eggs.
Jews and Arabs it seems it doesn't help that millions have died over the kitty litter-box they call their ancestral homeland (which it isn't for either of them); logically speaking, they are less intelligent than magpies.
And the history goes all the way back to 1916, when Amin al-Hussein launched a series of wars against Jewish migrants who had bought barren and unproductive lands in the British Mandate, and turned them into productive agricultural lands, something that al-Hussein’s Wahhabist “Palestinians” were never able to do - and since 1948, despite massive aid from the UNRWA, have not been able or willing to do.
Israel has been supplying water and electricity to Gaza since 2005. If those were cut off, Gaza would be finished, because with all of those billions of UNRWA aid, they've never managed to build any electrical generation facilities, or water wells - or a desalinization plant. And, of course, they don't grow their own food or have a fishing fleet, so they're dependent on UNRWA or Israel for food. Same case for the West Bank, I think, if I'm not mistaken. All of the money went to Hamas, to either enrich its now billionaire founders who now live far outside of "Palestine", or to buy weapons. And Hamas didn't get in by free elections, they seized power in a coup in 2006.
"Palestine" is an utterly dependent population. If Israel were to go away "from the river to the sea", they would end up like Zimbabwe, which is desperately seeking to bring back the English farmers they ran off of their lands, because the natives know only subsistence farming, and are utterly ignorant of how to make productive farms or to maintain agricultural machinery more complicated than a pointed stick.That point could be - and is being - driven home by Israel, because if "Palestine" were anything other than a dependent state, they wouldn't be having problems with starvation.
It is plainly apparent that Hamas intends to wipe Israel off the map - and that has been their historical intent, first with the Jewish settlers, and then with the State of Israel, since 1920 - over 100 years. And they have periodically declared their intent to do so, the last such statement of intent 8 years ago, in 2017.
To Hamas and its supporters, there is no “two state solution” as plainly and unequivocally demonstrated above, and this is the case for their supporters in Gaza and the West Bank. For Israel to have peace and sovereignty in its own lands, there is no other solution but to drive these avowed enemies out of the lands which they presently occupy - and they have no duty to provide any assistance to, or cooperation with, these people.
Palestinian Arabs - most notably the Bedouins - have peacefully co-existed with Jewish settlers in the British Mandate from the 1890s until 1948, until they were incorporated into the State of Israel, and they have peacefully co-existed ever since. It is the Wahhabist Islamic religious extremists, such as the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, and like organizations, who refuse this peaceful co-existence and insist on genocidal jihadi warfare - and to have peace, they must be driven out - just as the Muslim Brotherhood was driven out of Egypt and other Arab countries.
I've seen a lot of those kind of accusations being made. I don't think anyone (yet) understands how and why there was such a big security failure on the day.
If it was a deliberate act of negligence by Netanyahu etc then I have to wonder how on earth they thought they'd 'get away with it'? And so I have to put the speculation of complicity by deliberate negligence into the "extremely low probability" basket at the moment.
It still changes nothing about the need to get rid of the vile savages who could actually carry out such deeds, and with such glee.
Consider that there are people who for real to this day think that the French High Command were complicit in the German attack.
Because the German plans (Fall Gelb and Fall Rot) succeeded to such a remrakable degree it surpassed even the greatest expectations of Wehrmacht and Heer High Command - therefore, the French muct have been "in on it".
Or that [The Jews] orchestrated - in detail - the Russian Revolution, including the British response. Because there was absolutely no history previous to 1917 in which Russian peasantry might have had some points they might want to raise with the Tsar and his cronies.
And so on and on and on, because to some people, there simply must be a Plan behind events. That it is they themselves who lacked a) insight and knowledge, esp. knowledge of knowledge and b) wisdom and humility before the fallibility of the human mind and c) that it is impossible to give a completely true account for past events for the silly and simple reason that to do so one would have to re-create the entire event 1:1, which is impossible.
Nope, there just must be a Plan, or more commonly - The Plan. Made by Them.
That there are ideas, ideals, -isms, traditions, schools of thought, cultural conditioning, and so on that informs and forms our minds on top of the neurological structures?
Naaah! That's what They want you to think!
Compare it to arguing with religious people: argue about whether or not their god exists is pointless. It exists because they believe, and they believe because they believe it exists, and so it exists, and so on in an eternal recursion. Arguing about what their god thinks about plastic drinking straws is possible.
Hope that example makes it clear what part of the problem of this issue is, ideas/values-wise.
All Israel is doing, is ensuring that there will be a great many more generations who have justifiable grounds to hate them and want to wipe them out.
The Nabka cannot be ignored as one of the many reasons that the Palestinians have a visceral hatred of the Jews.
As I said, I have no time for Hamas, or Islam, but sometimes there are reasons.
As for Netanyahu.
Oct 7th was his 9/11......
Reading David Ray Griffins book on 9/11, there are so many catastrophic failures of every single procedure on the day, that it becomes clear it could not have happened by "accident".
The "dancing Israelis" who were there "to document the event" are testament to that.
I never used to wear a tinfoil hat, but having read about Operation Northwoods and the USS Liberty attack, it's apparent that "government" will happily murder their own people to achieve other goals.
Ironically, the majority of people killed were progressives who championed the "co-exist" idea. The charity they provided to the Gazans allowed them to create the intel they needed to invade.
Oh so it was Israeli firepower that raped and butchered the festival goers? Israeli firepower that inserted knives into the genitals of women and then twisted it? Israeli firepower that chopped off a woman's breasts in order to play football with them then shot her in the head after raping her again? Israeli firepower that chucked hand grenades into bomb shelters and then kept on chucking the grenades into the bomb shelters until every person there was blown up? All whilst the Gazans were filming themselves doing it? Israeli firepower that hacked off a Thai worker's head with a shovel?
Christ, I don't even know why I'm still bothering.
But alongside those atrocities, there were families blown apart in their homes by Israeli tank fire.
The travellers in the incinerated cars were reportedly murdered by Israeli helicopter gunships.
NONE of these victims needed to die, but the Israeli government appears to have created the circumstances for it to happen and silenced all of the concerns.
Even by their own people.
Israel is not innocent here.
It never is.
Maybe look beyond the media reports and read the testimonies of people who were there on the day,
I have no time for Hamas, nor Islam, but Israel is fully complicit in all of this.
You should be asking yourself how they got past the "Iron Dome," why the Israeli soldiers were told to stand down and, especially, why the "rave" was moved from its original venue to the one so close to the border. All is not what it seems.
Maybe there are questions to be asked about how and why there was such a failure of border security on the day.
But the thing is, it changes nothing.
If some guy went out to work the night shift and forgot to lock his front door only to come back in the morning to find his whole family had been slaughtered, this wouldn't remove the smallest iota of culpability from those who carried out the deed.
I'm not defending either side.
All I was saying is that all is not what we are being shown and told.
Oct 7 was planned. It was allowed to happen so Israel could have cause to implement its genocide.
Wasn't much of plan really - they're doing a piss poor job of genocide
True. Those are rookie numbers 20,000 Palestinian civilians. 50-70% of all buildings destroyed inc hospitals and schools. You're right! They really ought pick up the pace. 100% of buildings at least. We gotta kill more goat fuckers than that.
Why ask such stupid questions?
Iron Dome blocks missiles, not people. They came through the same gates they would come through when shopping or going to work and through walls.
The attacks began with a barrage of at least 4,300 rockets launched into Israel and vehicle-transported and powered paraglider incursions into Israel.
Israel had previously boasted that their system could even detect a mouse approaching their impregnable dome. So why was it turned off?
It's interesting how you can't fathom the idea that it had been quite some time since the Palestinians came over en masse to slaughter Jews that they had become less vigilant.
I have seen no evidence that it was turned off.
But even if your Nazi-lite narrative has explanatory power there is a simple truth.
Putting a gun in a man's hand won't kill anyone unless he wants to kill them.
It takes a bizarre level of cognitive dissonance to look at a Christian country (or the one Jewish one) and a Muslim country and tell yourself that they are equally civilised. So children......do you want to keep your country Christian (or Jewish) or do you want to allow it to become Muslim?
Spare a thought for UK freedom of expression
Yup - it's really, really concerning what's happening here in the UK. We definitely have 'freedom' of speech only within certain quite narrow boundaries now, the exact definitions of which are left deliberately vague - which, of course, isn't really free speech at all.
Thank You
Professor David Betz of Kings College knows a thing or two about warfare. He says civil war is coming to the countries of Europe and the UK.
I concur with him.
The Merz administration will likely be succeeded by AfD. After Merz vastly increases the military.
"How are we to live alongside those with vastly different ‘fundamental’ values to our own?"
We aren't, it's that simple.
The main reason we live apart is because we cannot live together, because we are too different. The people who can use force to get rtid of the other people and take their lands, will. Circumstances may halt or slow this, but as a principle it doesn't go away, because it is part of what we are:
Territorial-nomadic apes.
And while "ape shall never kill ape" is fine in theory, it only takes one to prove the theory bogus.
Since you mention my ancestors (and for the sake of formality let me say that "Viking" wasn't an ethnicity or a social class, but an activity: you "went a'viking" which meant you went trading in for'n lands and maybe getting some mercenary work or some piracy and looting in too if opportunity knocked) ask yourself this:
How did the Danelaw come about and how was it dissolved? How is it that the Norse left Ireland? Why didn't either of the two scenarios happen "Oop Nort'" and what happened there instead?
Aristotle spent a lot of time and energy trying to boil down ethics to basic first principles and he arrived at this:
"Do not cause suffering"
"Increase the good"
The translation from Ancient Greek is a bit halting since it was supposed to be understood in the relevant cultural context, but it has stood the test of time as a very solid foundation for Western ethics (emphasis on Western). Christianity incorporated it wholesale in degrees somewhen between 450AD and the Black Plague, to great success - the legacy of Aritotle is a creation-level foundation in the mythos of the Christos (which is much different from the Babylonian-originated Storm God the Jews made their over time).
I tend to bring up my chickens in debates on culture and multi-racialism and such. I could let gulls and ravens and crows and magpies and some raptor or other live in the coop and chicken run too. They're all birds, and all birds are created equal in dignity and worth, right?
But which ones are the best for eggs and meat?
And so, a wire-net fence inc. a roof, tight enough to not let anything larger than a Great Tit through. Said wire-net extending at a 45 angle outwards and down into the ground too (to ward off foxes, badgers, et c).
Should I encounter a magpie inside the run, that magpie is brown bread courtesy of either my rifle or one of the dogs, and is hung from a nearby tree in which the magies nest to ward off others. So far, I have only had cause to do that once in five years.
Magpies are in many ways smarter than humans of certain varieties: it took one, plus that they have access to the midden, to get them to stop trying to nick eggs.
Jews and Arabs it seems it doesn't help that millions have died over the kitty litter-box they call their ancestral homeland (which it isn't for either of them); logically speaking, they are less intelligent than magpies.
And the history goes all the way back to 1916, when Amin al-Hussein launched a series of wars against Jewish migrants who had bought barren and unproductive lands in the British Mandate, and turned them into productive agricultural lands, something that al-Hussein’s Wahhabist “Palestinians” were never able to do - and since 1948, despite massive aid from the UNRWA, have not been able or willing to do.
Israel has been supplying water and electricity to Gaza since 2005. If those were cut off, Gaza would be finished, because with all of those billions of UNRWA aid, they've never managed to build any electrical generation facilities, or water wells - or a desalinization plant. And, of course, they don't grow their own food or have a fishing fleet, so they're dependent on UNRWA or Israel for food. Same case for the West Bank, I think, if I'm not mistaken. All of the money went to Hamas, to either enrich its now billionaire founders who now live far outside of "Palestine", or to buy weapons. And Hamas didn't get in by free elections, they seized power in a coup in 2006.
"Palestine" is an utterly dependent population. If Israel were to go away "from the river to the sea", they would end up like Zimbabwe, which is desperately seeking to bring back the English farmers they ran off of their lands, because the natives know only subsistence farming, and are utterly ignorant of how to make productive farms or to maintain agricultural machinery more complicated than a pointed stick.That point could be - and is being - driven home by Israel, because if "Palestine" were anything other than a dependent state, they wouldn't be having problems with starvation.
It is plainly apparent that Hamas intends to wipe Israel off the map - and that has been their historical intent, first with the Jewish settlers, and then with the State of Israel, since 1920 - over 100 years. And they have periodically declared their intent to do so, the last such statement of intent 8 years ago, in 2017.
To Hamas and its supporters, there is no “two state solution” as plainly and unequivocally demonstrated above, and this is the case for their supporters in Gaza and the West Bank. For Israel to have peace and sovereignty in its own lands, there is no other solution but to drive these avowed enemies out of the lands which they presently occupy - and they have no duty to provide any assistance to, or cooperation with, these people.
Palestinian Arabs - most notably the Bedouins - have peacefully co-existed with Jewish settlers in the British Mandate from the 1890s until 1948, until they were incorporated into the State of Israel, and they have peacefully co-existed ever since. It is the Wahhabist Islamic religious extremists, such as the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, and like organizations, who refuse this peaceful co-existence and insist on genocidal jihadi warfare - and to have peace, they must be driven out - just as the Muslim Brotherhood was driven out of Egypt and other Arab countries.
If you want the details, directly from Hamas' Charters of 1988 and 2017, you can see them here: https://streamfortyseven.substack.com/p/its-time-for-israel-for-once-and
I am not denying the role of Hamas/Islam in this attack, but.....
Israel is fully complicit in enabling this crime.
Sigint - silenced.
Other int from IDF operations - silenced and ignored.
Foreign Int - ignored
Troops - stood down
Israel is also guilty of slaughtering their own citizens with the Hannibal / Samson directive being employed on the day.
I've seen a lot of those kind of accusations being made. I don't think anyone (yet) understands how and why there was such a big security failure on the day.
If it was a deliberate act of negligence by Netanyahu etc then I have to wonder how on earth they thought they'd 'get away with it'? And so I have to put the speculation of complicity by deliberate negligence into the "extremely low probability" basket at the moment.
It still changes nothing about the need to get rid of the vile savages who could actually carry out such deeds, and with such glee.
Consider that there are people who for real to this day think that the French High Command were complicit in the German attack.
Because the German plans (Fall Gelb and Fall Rot) succeeded to such a remrakable degree it surpassed even the greatest expectations of Wehrmacht and Heer High Command - therefore, the French muct have been "in on it".
Or that [The Jews] orchestrated - in detail - the Russian Revolution, including the British response. Because there was absolutely no history previous to 1917 in which Russian peasantry might have had some points they might want to raise with the Tsar and his cronies.
And so on and on and on, because to some people, there simply must be a Plan behind events. That it is they themselves who lacked a) insight and knowledge, esp. knowledge of knowledge and b) wisdom and humility before the fallibility of the human mind and c) that it is impossible to give a completely true account for past events for the silly and simple reason that to do so one would have to re-create the entire event 1:1, which is impossible.
Nope, there just must be a Plan, or more commonly - The Plan. Made by Them.
That there are ideas, ideals, -isms, traditions, schools of thought, cultural conditioning, and so on that informs and forms our minds on top of the neurological structures?
Naaah! That's what They want you to think!
Compare it to arguing with religious people: argue about whether or not their god exists is pointless. It exists because they believe, and they believe because they believe it exists, and so it exists, and so on in an eternal recursion. Arguing about what their god thinks about plastic drinking straws is possible.
Hope that example makes it clear what part of the problem of this issue is, ideas/values-wise.
Getting rid of the savages. Yes.
Slaughtering women, children and innocents? No.
All Israel is doing, is ensuring that there will be a great many more generations who have justifiable grounds to hate them and want to wipe them out.
The Nabka cannot be ignored as one of the many reasons that the Palestinians have a visceral hatred of the Jews.
As I said, I have no time for Hamas, or Islam, but sometimes there are reasons.
As for Netanyahu.
Oct 7th was his 9/11......
Reading David Ray Griffins book on 9/11, there are so many catastrophic failures of every single procedure on the day, that it becomes clear it could not have happened by "accident".
The "dancing Israelis" who were there "to document the event" are testament to that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m17oElr86AM
I never used to wear a tinfoil hat, but having read about Operation Northwoods and the USS Liberty attack, it's apparent that "government" will happily murder their own people to achieve other goals.
Ironically, the majority of people killed were progressives who championed the "co-exist" idea. The charity they provided to the Gazans allowed them to create the intel they needed to invade.
The people who invaded were the workers who traveled to Israel daily along the same routes.
IIRC, an IDF Apache pilot is on record as saying that most of the dead were killed by Israeli firepower.
Oh so it was Israeli firepower that raped and butchered the festival goers? Israeli firepower that inserted knives into the genitals of women and then twisted it? Israeli firepower that chopped off a woman's breasts in order to play football with them then shot her in the head after raping her again? Israeli firepower that chucked hand grenades into bomb shelters and then kept on chucking the grenades into the bomb shelters until every person there was blown up? All whilst the Gazans were filming themselves doing it? Israeli firepower that hacked off a Thai worker's head with a shovel?
Christ, I don't even know why I'm still bothering.
Nope.
But alongside those atrocities, there were families blown apart in their homes by Israeli tank fire.
The travellers in the incinerated cars were reportedly murdered by Israeli helicopter gunships.
NONE of these victims needed to die, but the Israeli government appears to have created the circumstances for it to happen and silenced all of the concerns.
Even by their own people.
Israel is not innocent here.
It never is.
Maybe look beyond the media reports and read the testimonies of people who were there on the day,
I have no time for Hamas, nor Islam, but Israel is fully complicit in all of this.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-07/israel-hannibal-directive-kidnap-hamas-gaza-hostages-idf/104224430
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israeli-hq-ordered-troops-shoot-israeli-captives-7-october
https://electronicintifada.net/content/evidence-israel-killed-its-own-citizens-7-october/41156
https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-general-killed-israelis-7-october-then-lied-about-it/43176